Posts by Max Divergent

18

To current JWs/those who still go to meetings,etc - how is your faith? 5 Qs

by my-journey in

jw
friends

i know its stupid of me to post a new topic when i haven't finished reading my first thread, but i wanted to know stuff about any current jws that may be here.

you don't need to reply if you want to tell me off or say something o/t.

you can use my first thread for that, since that thread is more general.

Max Divergent

By how much of a %age has your faith weakened? How much of a blow was it? What was it due to?

Faith? In what? JW'dom? 100% Jehovah? 100% Other religions... who knows, I've gotten to know some nuns and Christian Bros (Catholic) and they're very cool and reasonable people, also an Anglican priest - he's a good guy. I know some pagans now, and ditto. They actually gave me a bit of faith that some form of religion used reasonably might be sorta OK. But I have no faith in the sense a JW would use the word.

Have you tried to bring your doubts to anyone? With what result?

My wife, brother and father: they agreed. Sisiter and mother: they semi-shun me. Anglican priest: he corrected my misuse of scriptures, but was very pleasent. Pagan ex-Pioneer: he was very supportive. People here: they're generally plain spoken, but pretty good when approched reasonably. Publishers: Nah, I left them alone. Elders: not on your life. I smokescreened my way out of that one.

What things do you now doubt? What things do you still believe in? (Trinity, New world, blood's sacredness etc)

I can't think of anything that the JW's beleive that I also believe in the same way they believe it. I'm interested in utilitarian hedonisim and rationalisim.

What keeps you going to meetings? If you preach, how do you, not feeling 100% in your belief? Is it hard?

Don't want to go.Don't go. Wouldn't go. When I did go but wasn't beleiving anymore, I went out of my way to be kind and nice and encouraging to people, but not to actually to ask them to do JW stuff. On the doors, I'd do almost anything to not actually talk to anyone - like knock on the bricks, not the door...

What are your plans within the org? Will you do something definitive like: ask a bunch of questions at the risk of reproof, DF etc?

If people are happy being JW, then good luck to them and I'll be Mr Nice Guy and let them get on with what they do. If they aren't happy, then I'll let them know that it's OK to leave if they want to and that what they'll be told by the JW's about leaving and what it's like 'in the world' is untrue - it's actually an OK place out here.

Just my view.

Max

40

Where Would You Most Like To Visit?

by Swan in

jw
friends

with millions of people traveling this memorial day weekend i am curious.. where are you going this weekend?

where would you go if time and money were not obstacles?.

i am going camping in the forest near the oregon coast.

Max Divergent

I had that choice two years ago and went to Washington DC to see the Smithsonian, Libary of Congress, Arlington National Cematary etc... I'd go back anytime, it was great.

We'd like to go to Hong Kong and Turkey, and have always wanted to overland from Bali, Indonesia to Bangkok, Thailand. That takes us through Java, Sumartra, Singapore, Malaysia and into Thailand.

Max

63

What first gave you doubts ?

by rick1199 in

we all know the big problems with the wts, but what was the first thing that made you realise there were problems with the organisation ?

with me it was realitivly small stuff like an 8 year old getting baptised and a comment my best mates made about another of our friends asking if we should be hanging round with her as she might be bad assciation (she had just been reproved, but they had been mates 20 years).. .

how ever the first time i ever thought something was really wrong was when i was about 11 and my grand farther died, and mu mum wouldn't go to the funeral, i remeber thinking that surely it was better to say good bye properly than worry about if the service was in a church.. .

Max Divergent

Basicly it came down the relief from very deep unhappiness I lived with as a JW being totally lifted and replaced by an 'easy grip on life' and comfortable happiness I experienced from the very moment I had the Eureka moment that I was no longer a JW.

All the usual things like nasty elders, badly handled matters, exposure to nasty boys meetings and that sorta stuff helped get me to that point, but it was really the stark difference between levels of happiness as a human being that made the difference... and the thought of an eternety in an extreme JW 'paradise' just seemed so awful compared to a grave.

They really are a very unhappy people who've learned to thrive on unhappiness.

Max

129

Blacks can't speak English - Bill Cosby

by closer2fine in

jw
friends

sorry if this was already posted, i did a search & didn't see it.. .

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?article_id=38565.

minority report.

Max Divergent

I might note that the

I would have thought that language use is as much about influencing the audience as it is about the individual's culture or esteem?

I think it's useful to be able to 'Code Shift' between Standard English and other English dialects, accents or creoles when appropriate or advantageous.

Cosby?s right that to be a medical doctor one needs a good command of standard English (and scientific English too). But that?s not to say that a command of ghetto English is any disadvantage to the Dr, just they need the capacity to shift.

I don?t know anything of schools out of my local area, but here they distinguish between ?Home Talk? (Australian Aboriginal English) and Standard Australian English. They say Home Talk is fine for casual conversations at or away from school, but education takes place in Standard English because that?s, umm? the standard for the rest of the industrialised world ? that?s how books are written and TV is spoken, and that?s how you gotta talk to a phone Call Centre or a tourist if you want to have an conversation that doesn?t leave either or both parties utterly bewildered.

That means the kids can, if they choose to, speak standard English if that?s advantageous to them. Like they know when to say ?Yes? instead of clicking the tongue as they usually do, or they can choose to click. But it?s a choice they make, they?re not condemned to a world where they can?t speak the mainstream language and are forever confused by the world outside the community they grew up in.

Max

29

Digestive Biscuits.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

plain?.

with milk chocolate?.

with dark chocolate?.

Max Divergent

Digestives... OMG... the name... makes me think of somthing being digested by all the sticky, gooey bile in the gut... taking one just seems somthing that should be done in private under the advice of a pharmacist, or at least under the cover of a euphamisim...

I can't think what that sort of biscut is called here... don't know that there's a coverall name for them... definatly not 'digestive'... but dark chocholate to answer the ?

Max

PS: ...and biscut (US) = muffin (just about everywhere else)... So, you have a Sausage & Egg (& Gravy) McBiscut, I have a Sausage & Egg McMuffin (sans gravy)... cultural diversity in McWorld...

16

Is this a witness couple?

by Sirius Dogma in

Max Divergent

OMG!! Too funny... But, nah, JW's are always talking about sex ...and demons ...

They seem to spend half their time punishing people for having sex with the wrong people, or with the right people but before they're allowed to, or with the right people after they're allowed to but in an unapproved way, or using the wrong prompts to think about it, or for solo 'deadening of the body members', or using the wrong words to describe it, or dealing with the consequences of being to precious with people who've been sexual with the little people who they REALLY shouldn't have been... or talking about ouija boards...

Whatever probs JW's may have with sex, it's not ignorance...

Max

15

Before you get baptised do you have to declare how much....

by farmer in

jw
friends

money you are going to donate to jw?????

?

Max Divergent

No. You never have to declare how much you earn, give or anything else. The 'enouragement' to give or give more is ever present.

Max

26

Major US / UK Difference. Caution, Possible Flame.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

.

well, our lorries are different to your trucks.. ours are flat fronted, yours have a bonnet.. ours are taller, yours are wider.. ours go like sh*t off a shovel, your kenworths couldn't pull a greased kitten out of bed.

englishman.

Max Divergent

In northern Australia we'd call all those little things CARS, or TONKA TRUCKS... I have these 55m Road Trains go past my house all day long... the fuel trucks are four standard trailers long... Try passing one of these while it's doing 100km/h...

Max

30

BOE Letters

by Perry in

around 18 months ago or so i thought i heard about one (body of elders letter) that counseled elders that if they had committed fonication, and it had been awhile, and if they felt that god had forgiven them, that it was not necessarily a mandate that they confess to their fellow elders nor step down.

or, something to that effect.

does anyone remember that one or where i can get a copy?.

Max Divergent

To avoid doubt, the '72 OKM can apply to ANY SIN, including carnel GROSS SIN (a DF offence for which a JC is required) - all sin is sin is sin and is treated the same before God....

BUT, concealment of Gross Sin is a Gross Sin too, and that is current sin right up the the day of confession, so OKM has no application as the guy is a current gross sinner.

So, for practical purposes it's mostly the sinning of the nature for which the council of an elder or two will suffice, except where the sinner is ignorant of the nature of his sin being a Gross Sin, such as where it's only defined as a sin in a book he has no access to - like Flock. A rare occurance but it does happen, especially with pornia.

Max - who feels like going out for a gross sin after talking about it so much...

30

BOE Letters

by Perry in

around 18 months ago or so i thought i heard about one (body of elders letter) that counseled elders that if they had committed fonication, and it had been awhile, and if they felt that god had forgiven them, that it was not necessarily a mandate that they confess to their fellow elders nor step down.

or, something to that effect.

does anyone remember that one or where i can get a copy?.

Max Divergent

Perry - it was an OKM in about '72 as HS said. I'd guess that a BOE of the sort you mention would very likley be on the authority of that OKM. It is unlikley (but might happen) that a BOE would have 'new light', more likley a new shade on an old lamp.

As to 1), there is more specific detail on certian DF offences in the Flock book (and maybe letters etc) than in the public materials. The common one that gets quoted often is the more explicit description of pornia in Flock compared to the WT. 'Borderline cases' might be technically grey areas according to the WT, but are DF offences according to Flock. If a new elder reads Flock for the first time and has a guilt trip as a result of a 'grey area' indiscretion years ago (and has been a good boy since) that he now knows to be a DF offence and confesses, he need not be removed and reproved/DF as a result of this.

I'd suggest it's sensible and preserves some Christian charity and fairness. I'd just like the same charity extended to all JW, not just those who get an appointment. I seem to recall the discussion months ago. I think that's all it was, no big deal.

Max